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Were Joseph and Hyrum leading the church astray, as evidenced by God taking them from this earth? If the church was not rejected according to D&C 124 it seems that believe Brigham Young definitely introduced or expanded on non-scriptural false doctrines (polygamy, Adam-god, blood atonement, blacks & priesthood/temple) God didn’t seem to take him out early so I have no faith in this false teaching that God will remove a leader if they lead people astray. He already taught us in scripture to beware of false prophets and to not trust in the arm of flesh. The LDS doctrine of following prophets is leading us away from Christ in favor of a sandy foundation. 3 Nephi 11, 14, 18

Oooooh, no. You haven't looked up the backlash on that talk have you? You look really naive and brainwashed right now. Maybe check about that "old book" he had and read up the actual events leading up to that point. The lds history seems to jump like JS went from prophet to martyr within months. He got away with it for long time. Took over a state. Absolutely he would not have expected someone could kill him. Hed fled jurisdictions plenty of times. Yeah. Look up David Koresh and repeat Holland words "would these men blaspheme before...." Yeaaaaaahhhh. They do. They do. Over and over and over they do.

I wish Sister Johnson would tell us how she reconciled working when the GA kept telling women to stay home. She kind of left that part out.

A few thoughts on this: 1 - the question of “how far is too far” is a good question, but it bypasses the earlier checkpost of a mistake that does not disqualify a Church leader. Our leaders have always been sincere, good men, but they’ve gotten a lot wrong across history-much of it could have been prevented by having enough institutional humility to hear out and appropriately address the concerns of the members. Just because it isn’t considered to have risen to the level of nullifying their calling and authority doesn’t make any of those mistakes ok. 2 - where we rely on the collective agreement of the Q15, we must remember that structure heavily prioritizes tradition, as changes require unanimity and all apostles are expected to back the quorum decision. But it’s not lost on me that Pres Oaks is responsible for 90% of the harsh rhetoric on LGBTQ issues, that President Packer’s designation of the Family Proclamation as revelation was walked back on the published talk, or that Elder Gong doesn’t adhere to Pres Oak’s recommended manner of dealing with his gay son. By appearances, leaders are not of the same mind on this issue, so they might anticipate changes with future turnover. 3 - the active suppression of dissent is significant, as is the continued lack of full transparency. The Church has improved by leaps and bounds in this, but still has far to go. There are journals from key historical figures still in the vault, as well as redaction in what does get published. But this is isn’t limited to history-the Church has denied member inquiries into the nature of the audit warnings that preceded the SEC investigation and penalties over dishonest reporting. I do agree with the sentiment of doing the best you can, but I don’t believe that entails setting your conscience aside, especially when you feel that will make you complicit to harm. At some point down the road I hope that the Church becomes more receptive to issues and questions raised through the members-there’s no reason this can’t be considered part of a divine is information source.

Mental gymnastics in the name of political correctness at a level unprecedented and unequalled in all of religious history!

I am often reminded that even Ciafas who was the great high priest even received revelation on the issue of Jesus, and yet almost everything else recorded that he did and said was clearly wrong. It is the responsibility of every member to learn by study and by prayer every word that proceeds from their spiritual leaders (that includes women leaders in the church of course).

Using a seer stone to see special messages or to "translate" a text is known as scrying, a form of divination. Deuteronomy 18:10 forbids divination. But that's ok. The real, historical, and divine Jesus of the Bible loves us much more than the Mormon Jesus ever could. Jesus is all we need to enter the presence of God for eternity.

I am a Catholic Christian, and I watch this channel because 1.) I have tremendous respect for the Latter Day Saint faith, and 2.) I find these topics very fascinating! I do want to say, in a spirit of charity, that papal infallibility is not what most people think it is. Ultimately, it really boils down to the idea that the Pope will never bind the Catholic Church to hearsay. Frankly, the pope, like all human beings, does act and speak in manners that are sinful at times.

It is not a coincidence that this video came out when it did. I am grateful for this video.

Pratt had married another mans wife in Arkansas and for that he was killed. Almost seems justifiable and would probably arouse anger in most men? The feds were outraged and demanded accountability for the slaughter so John D Lee was chosen to be the one. Read "Mormonism Unveiled" by John D Lee for the parts that have been conveniently left out here.

The leaders no longer make such strong statements because they can now be scrutinized and proven wrong. The rise of information makes them way less confident in making strong statements such as evolution being false. As for the comment that we should listen to modern prophets rather than dead prophets…. Why have the scriptures? Those prophets are long dead

Guys--the case of Camille Johnson is one of the easier cases over the course of Mormon history. And yes, it is very problematic but it goes so much deeper than that. It begs the question, how can a prophet be trusted and what value does a prophet even have?

15:55 you've never heard that scripture because church leaders and church culture are scared to emphasize it because it could take away fear of disobedience. Removing fear, in my opinion, is essential for us to truly love God and demonstrate our love for God genuinely. Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

FYI, Brigham Young made this claim in 1862, well before Wilford Woodruff taught this in 1890. "You may go home and sleep as sweetly as a babe in its mother's arms, as to any danger of your leaders leading you astray, for if they should try to do so the Lord would quickly sweep them from the earth." This is a dangerous teaching, there are multiple examples of church leaders teaching false doctrine and leading astray. Support and sustain your leaders when they lead in righteousness, but build a relationship with a God, trust in Christs atonement, and do what you know is right. It’s okay to wrestle and disagree on occasion.

Why was Joseph Smith receiving direct revelation from God on a regular basis, but not the other prophets? For me, the prophet recommending all members to get the vaccine was the final straw. I can't trust them anymore. No more mental gymnastics for me.

Coincidence is God's miracle when He wants to remain anonymous. Patricia Holland

I have a hard time spelling "toilet" as I think in needs an "r" like "torlet" my family gives me such a hard time I don't want to quit. Part of the confusion Latter Day Saints and others compare the Prophet to the Pope, so many get confused that we might also have a principal belief like papal infallibility, which LDS does not.

I thought you were going to try and defend the story and show how it’s true

2 men discussing how pologamy is from God! Shocking- not!!! Yes Brian you will get your 20 virgins in heaven😩

The LDS propaganda machine can only spin this so far...all is not well in Zion

@cheyaweber704 I don't have any scriptural basis behind this but I think of all the unmarried men and women in the Spirit World (lots of soldiers) and can't believe they won't have a chance to marry. Our God gives us so many chances to repent, why wouldn't he give those who died without the chance of marriage the opportunity. Think of the provision made for babies who die before the age of 8 - they are provided for. Those who have died without the knowledge of the gospel will have the opportunity to hear it in the Spirit World and be sealed either before His Second Coming or during the millennium. There's all of the millennium when temple work will be going on and divorces and marriage could take place. Think of arranged marriages where a woman is married to an old codger or an unrighteous man (an vice versa) the man is married to an evil woman for sake of joining two kingdoms together (as in Prince and Princess). Those people are not sealed in the temple so their marriage vows will dissolve and they will be free to choose someone they love. I told my single sister that she would have her pick of a valiant soldier from one to the world wars. She promptly replied that she would rather choose one of Moroni's soldiers! I believe we have a fair and just God. This idea of marriages being sealed between a righteous man and a righteous woman during the millennium makes sense to me. God's work is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I believe He will make provisions for these many unmarried people

That was really good

I think we can dig deeper here. I, frankly, find it odd that we refer to the president of the church as 'The Prophet', when all members of the first presidency and Q12 are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators. I likewise, find it odd that we culturally grant the president of the church authoritative precedent over the non-president prophets. Here are some questions we could ask related to authority: Question: Do living prophets who are presidents trump living prophets who are apostles? Question: Does a living prophet (president) trump a dead prophet (president)? Question: Does a dead prophet who is a president trump a living prophet who is an apostle? Question: Do dead prophets whose writings ended up in canonized scripture trump living prophets? Question: Can biblical scholars trump the scriptural interpretations of prophets? Question: Is there a meaningful distinction between a prophet speaking with divine authority and the same person making a mistake in their personal capacity? If so, can someone reliably discern when a prophet is speaking as a man versus as a prophet? Question: Assuming a "yes" to the previous question, do you believe that a prophet's personal opinion still holds more authority than others' opinions? I believe it's crucial to reexamine our cultural perspectives on prophetic authority within the Church. We should move away from idolizing the church President with hero worship. We should recognize that church leadership holds priesthood keys for administering ordinances, rather than exclusively conveying divine communications. It's important to reduce our dependency on and expectations of prophets, taking personal responsibility for our discipleship and actively serving as agents of God. We should approach teachings from prophets understanding that they are fallible individuals through whom revelation is filtered. Without these adjustments, we risk spiritual handicaps and potential faith crises among Latter-day Saints.

If you do a part 2 on this ever, consider discussing Ezra Taft Benson's "14 Fundamentals in Following the Prophet". It touches a lot of your points and opinions made here.

Someone alluded that no one in the LDS Church can make mistakes , because then the Church probably becomes false, because they should have known better.

I have seen a LOT of talks with sisters speaking last. Even my wife spoke after me because the Bishopric didn’t say one way or the other. Haven’t been asked to speak since 😉

Why don't you give to the poor people and donate in the hospital. Ect.

There is discremenation for employment only church member of you member of the church..

2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4 ROMANS 8:6 VS, God Science Fact Only Matter The New Anti FE Bible Inverted, Is Equally Opposite Errant, Distortion

Prophets are fallable. They are human, but following the Spirit will always be rule #1. We should follow the prophet, yes, but if the Spirit says otherwise, no one outranks God. For instance, if the Spirit tells you that a "shot" is going to hurt you and you must not take it, then I'm going to listen to that instruction. God outranks all men.

Also a crazy thing is that the 4 idolastrous gods he talks about are actual gods found among mesopotamian deities, and the odds that he would've guessed a random combination of syllables and still end up on four actual idolastrous gods are less than winning three consecutive times the lottery

To blindly follow any leader or prophet is contradictory to what God wills for us. God has endowed us all with intelligence and discernment through the Spirit. Prophets are exceptionally valuable, however; they are guides. You aren't to give up your agency unquestionably.

I agree with you.

Great video! Also, just wanted to say, Wilson your hair looks great in this episode. 🧡😂

In Doctrine and Covenants 76 it says that those in the higher kingdoms will minister to those in the lower kingdoms and the Telestial kingdom will have ministering angels assigned to it. But why? I firmly believe that we will be assigned to kingdoms based on the laws of God which we are able to follow, with the Celestial Kingdom having the highest law. Those in the higher kingdoms will teach their law to the lower kingdoms inhabitants. Once someone learns the higher law and can abide by it then they should be allowed to inhabit the kingdom of the higher law. To minister is to teach the gospel. There's no point in teaching if those ministered to cannot learn. The reason why "an increase" was not seen by Joseph Smith was because he wasn't shown everything. If the world thought they could do whatever they wanted and "earn" the Celestial Kingdom later then hedonism and anarchy would rule and Grace would be made null. It would destroy the plan and mankind would learn nothing. God would have to start over again like the flood. It's probably for the best if after death progression ISN'T confirmed in this life.

Would you look at Moses or Jesus as if they could speak out of step with the Father?

That's the wrong question

All prophets since the time of Adam have made mistakes. Show me better people than our current modern day prophets and I will listen to them. Only Jesus Christ is perfect.

Brigham Young was a great prophet and did many wonderful things but he made a BIG mistake based on race. A lot of other churches were racist during that time of history. The Bible or the book of Mormon does not support racism.

I enjoyed this topic but disagreed a little at the end. Though I haven't necessarily gone into GC's or other meetings looking for all the reasons why I should doubt them, I value my experience of taking the time to question and dissect the parts of me that may have a problem or concern with this or that talk in conference. Honestly, those have been some of my more meaningful experiences. I think people shouldn't be afraid to sit and explore their doubt or concerns. We just need to learn to do so in healthy ways that doesn't end up dismissing or ignoring all that we do agree with.

This reminded me of a conference talk given M. Russell Ballard in 2015 or so, where he was talking about, among other things, evolution. My wife and I were listening to the talk live on the radio. He said something to the effect of, "They expect us to believe in the big bang theory. It's like comparing the way a printer press can me thrown down to where the letters get jumbled up, but then they randomly go back in order over time.......I'm not buying that......." - At the end of the talk, a person on this live radio broadcast said something to the effect of: "The opinions expressed in this talk do not necessarily express the opinions of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints". My wife and I looked at each other and were shocked, because we had never heard this type of advisory at the end of a talk before. (However, we usually didn't listen to conference on the radio). NO ONE that i've ever talked to seems to remember this happening!

So we're making excuses for why nothing in the BoM is able to be archaeologically verified but meanwhile the events in the Bible are all able to be backed up archaeologically. My money's on the Bible on this one. You guys there is more to life than following the law - Jesus died on the cross to free us supernaturally from sin so that we may become more Christlike. His grace is sufficient! Does that mean you get a hallpass to sin? Absolutely not! Faith without works is dead but works will not get you to heaven! Jesus is the only mediator between man and God!

Did Brigham made the decision to exclude black colored people himself without a revelation,, since around 36 AD Peter was prompted to meet a Ethiopian teach him the Gosple and book of Isaiah and baptise him??

There are also decisions for the times and conditions, that may change as we get better at living the gospel. The early leaders were weaker than the current leaders.

You should know them by their fruits!... You have a lot of prophets that spoke to god in person had lots of crazy miracles happen and seen angels and all kinds of things . And they still infallible.

As a convert, I learned that we should pray about everything that we hear. Being all different individuals with different needs and hopes. We all have personal experiences and problems. Therefore, it may seem we are being disobedient, but who are we to judge? And what about prophets who have told us to be educated and prepared for a need to work in our future. Also, what a good example to our children regarding education. Always be prayerful and continually be introspective regarding our obedience.

Ya know what would have been a great episode to do today? "The Church and Patriotism," or maybe "How Members Celebrate July 4th," or perhaps "Prophets and Presidents." Ya know, something to indicate that y'all recognize the value of this holiday even in the church. 🤦🏻‍♂️ You could have saved the episode of "infaluability" for next week

A pretty good argument can be made in support of the premise that the origin, the motivation, the impetus, etc., of all revelations issued by the 16 prophets that have followed Joseph Smith, have been of the nature of a sociological and/or political nature. Those kind of revelations obviously do not depend upon divine intervention.

Love their testimonies in German. (Ich ben zuruckgekerte Missionair)

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